I am not completely proud of "outing" your own, Jonathan Merritt, this week. I am very conflicted about what I've done. However, what is done is done.
What we have now is an opportunity. An opportunity to have a discussion with transparency and honesty.
So lets do that, okay? Not the typical fear based rhetoric, misinformation or half-truths. Let's have real talk.
Be love,
Azariah Southworth
What we have now is an opportunity. An opportunity to have a discussion with transparency and honesty.
So lets do that, okay? Not the typical fear based rhetoric, misinformation or half-truths. Let's have real talk.
Be love,
Azariah Southworth
I think you did what you thought was the honest thing.
ReplyDeleteIt seems however, that neither the SBC or Merritt wish to discuss this topic honestly. Merritt's already done a damage control interview with Ed Stetzer in which he seems to blame his actions as an adult on being molested as a child by a man in his neighborhood. He further digs his heels in by claiming "I don't identify as gay".
Good for you for trying, Azariah, but you might as well ask the pope to have an honest conversation about birth control.
As I mentioned in your last post, if you sleep with someone or have sex with them it is absolutely your right to out them if you feel the need to. Having sex with someone opens you up to sharing a bit of them inside you forever. It then falls on you to decide what to do with them. If you really had a gut feeling that you needed to do this then don't regret it. If openness and honesty isn't at the heart of the supposed christian message then it should be and now he has the chance to be more open and honest with his family and congregation. The same that he was lying and deceiving just days ago. Besides he's never going to start healing until he can have a relationship with a man and not feel guilty and this is just the first step.
ReplyDeleteIn what article does Merritt say he had sex with this guy. He doesn't say that. He says inappropriate contact. All the evidence we have is the author of this article & he's assuming, which makes him an ass, & basing it on one incident of inappropriate contact. Also, who is he to out anyone. It's none of his business.
DeleteI'm reluctant to enter the thread, knowing the flame-throwing contest that is to ensue. This is a case of curiosity overcoming good judgment.
ReplyDeleteWhat am I curious about? I'm just wondering what you think has changed to open any new opportunity that wasn't there before? Help me to understand.
1. Are you of the impression that Southern Baptists don't know that there are Southern Baptists who are tempted homosexually? This revelation about Jonathan Merritt doesn't introduce anything new in that regard. Were you thinking it did? Homosexuality is very trendy in our culture right now. Every community and every church is facing this issue right now. We're aware that many people are tempted in this way.
2. Are you of the impression that Southern Baptists don't know that people fall to temptation? For heaven's sake, that pretty much our raison d'être! It's the starting point of every worthwhile gospel presentation—that we're all sinners. Southern Baptists don't just know this; we've been spreading this message every chance we get for a century and a half.
3. Are you of the impression that Merritt is in the same place as you? That he is now following you out of Christianity? That he's no longer a believer in biblical inerrancy or that he is ready to practice the disingenuous hermeneutical legerdemain that advocates use to try to make the Bible say something different about homosexual activity than what it clearly says? I don't see any evidence of that. You'd have a better argument if, instead of some same-sex encounter, you had evidence that he had sworn some oath to Satan or Wellhausen or something.
4. Do you think that this revelation will move the Southern Baptist Convention in your direction? You've probably just made far less influential in the Southern Baptist Convention someone who was pushing for a softer stance on homosexual issues. I'm someone who has opposed Merritt on these questions. You've just empowered my side and weakened his.
5. The key difference of opinion between me and you is not over whether we sin or how much we sin or how flagrantly we sin. The difference is over what sin is and what is sin. How do you think this episode has changed any aspect of THAT conversation? What new "opportunity" has this created in that regard? I just don't see it.
I'm very encouraged by what has transpired this week. Jonathan Merritt doesn't want to call himself "gay" and neither do I wish to call him that, but for the sake of conversation, in just this thread, I'll agree to call him a gay man. Here's this "gay man" who is a Southern Baptist Christian. In what has probably been a tough week for him other Southern Baptist Christians, but for a few exceptions, have showered him with affirmation and love and support. Gay people have heaped scorn upon him and have vilified him. The difference between the comments at your blog and the comments at Ed Stetzer's blog could not be starker. Looking to see where the Holy Spirit is and where He is not—well, it doesn't take much looking to see that. That hasn't always been the case for us. I'm much encouraged.
Merritt is a liar who continues to lie. His only response thus far has been a lame attempt to premise his consensual homosexual behavior as an adult on being molested as a child. I'm sure plenty of his faithful flock will swallow it whole and weep along with him and dad on Sunday morning. But all that will accomplish is to make a mockery out of the real "brokenness" suffered by victims of child molestation and further deepen the ignorance about homosexuality in which many evangelicals enthusiastically wallow.
DeleteOK. We already knew that we disagreed about that (or, at least, since you didn't already know me, you knew that you disagree with people LIKE me about that). So…where's the new "opportunity"? Or do you disagree with our host about there being a new opportunity created by this whole episode?
DeleteA discussion without "fear based rhetoric, misinformation or half-truths"?
DeleteBut isn't that what religion is? Isn't that why it was invented? To fill you with fear and misinformation so you'll submit to authority?
I think you're running into a concrete wall here that many stalwart freethinkers have splattered themselves upon before you. You can't have a conversation based on reason and evidence with people who have rejected reason and evidence as a means of arriving at conclusions.
Imagine if I belonged to a religion that rejected the Pythagorean Theorem. Suppose you kept trying to prove the Pythagorean Theorem to me (Apparently there are 97 ways to do it.), and suppose I said "No, Azariah, the Evil One planted that proof in your mind. I know the Pythagorean Theorem is wrong because my special Revelation From God tells me so. You think you're smarter than God? Besides it's a matter of historical record that Pythagoras was a cantankerous legume-shunning heathen."
What kind of discussion would you be able to have with me? None, right? Because you and I would have two very different ways of defining reality. Your reality is based on what you can observe and prove. My reality is based on a perfect, unquestionable revelation.
Also, your reality-- or your understanding of it anyway-- is adjustable. Maybe you might discover that the Pythagorean Theorem doesn't hold true in a black hole or maybe it doesn't hold true when you're traveling at the speed of light or something. My reality isn't adjustable that way. To paraphrase your fundamentalist friends, God told me the Pythagorean Theorem is wrong, I believe it, and that settles it.
What I find so sad about fundamentalism is that there's really a lot to admire in the Gospels and the Old Testament, but when you turn those ancient documents into some kind of oracle, or an idol (Isn't that an idolatrous belief that you can walk around the Word of God tucked under your arm?), they lose all their power. They become a book of magical mumbo jumbo, no more relevant than a horoscope or a bag of fortune cookies.
Kurt, I think you're onto something here. Although obviously we differ on so much, I think we can agree that the choice is between your view of homosexuality on the one hand and Christianity on the other hand. Embracing your view requires the relinquishment of the Christian faith (or the redefinition of it in a way that amounts to the relinquishment of it).
DeleteI just wish that everyone advocating for your point of view would be so honest about it.
That's pretty close to what I believe, yes. I don't think I would say my view of homosexuality is inconsistent with Christian faith, though. I think I would say that my view is inconsistent with the idea of divine revelation. So, for instance, if you think that St. Paul's writings represent a divine revelation, it seems intellectually dishonest to me to try to interpret his writings in a gay-friendly way. I mean, St. Paul didn't even want heterosexual people getting married for heaven's sakes.
DeleteI think it's more intellectually honest to say "St. Paul wanted women to keep quiet in church, he didn't like gay people, and if a girl walks by in a bikini, you better look the other way, because he doesn't want anybody burning with lust. You can believe it's the Word of God, or you can believe it's the word of a curmudgeonly First Century rabbi, but that's what the words say."
Now I realize there are issues of translation, and the bikini wasn't invented until 1946, but you know what I mean. I cannot picture a St. Paul who was comfortable with homosexuality any more than I can picture a St. Paul who was comfortable with female clergy or wife swapping or nudist colonies.
Now here is why I make this distinction (which might seem rather eccentric) between a belief in divine revelation and the Christian faith. I believe that Christian faith might mean something like adhering to the principles of selflessness and compassion and decency that we find expressed all over the Gospels, in the parable of the Good Samaritan, for example. That is a kind of faith, I think, but a faith not necessarily based on any supernatural belief.
Great, reasoned summary Bart. I just came from an emotional service at Cross Pointe but a powerful one. I will preface my comments by saying that I have seen nothing in all the chatter to suggest anything more occurred than what Jonathan has freely admitted to - an inappropriate act or series of act. I do not see how that makes someone a "homosexual." Whether Jonathan feels those temptations, I cannot say nor is it my place to speculate. The question is does he act on those temptations if they exist? As a straight man, I feel temptations toward women all the time, but the key is not to act on them. Thus, if Jonathan is being forthright on events in 2009 - and absent other information I will believe him - then what Southworth and others in the blogosphere have spun this information as is exaggerated and mischaracterized - and this is my personal speculation - for pursuit of their own agenda.
DeleteThat being said, here is the biggest take away from this morning. Pastor Merritt preached that the first Scripture that God gave him as he grappled with the news about his son was Genesis 50:20 - "You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives." Southworth couched his initial post on this as having some higher purpose, that he was pursuing honesty, etc. The reality was - it was not his honesty to pursue. Now, if someone is truly being hypocritical, I have a much harder time arguing against transparency, even in a method used by Southworth. However, what has Southworth really revealed here? A limited series of incidents for which Jonathan has stated remorse and has sought forgiveness from God and, as of this morning, acknowledged before our church. In other words, Southworth has merely provided a "practice what you preach" moment for Pastor and Jonathan Merritt. Despite the rhetoric of "hate" and "division" that is not the message I have heard in 20-plus years of attending Southern Baptists Churches and certainly nothing close to anything I have ever heard from Pastor Merritt or his son. They have consistently talked about love for others, repentance to God, forgiveness from God or others. I admit some Christians do stray away from loving - I would be intellectually dishonest to suggest otherwise. Given the known circumstances, I fail to see how this "outing" falls into appropriate transparency of a hypocrite. Hence, Southworth's noble description of his actions and his attempts to cover himself by indicating how conflicted he was, fall very flat. Rather what he has really accomplished this week, as Genesis 50:20 makes abundantly clear, is to empower both Jonathan and his father with a very strong example of "practice what you preach." And for that, I am thankful that God can work even acts of sin - by whomever - to His good.
I disagree with the host. As i noted above, Merritt has apparently chosen to slam that door shut. His Facebook account appears to have been closed. His twitter has gone unusually silent. His one and only apparent attempt to address the issue publicly began with a completely unrelated story of childhood abuse.
ReplyDeleteThe evangelical Christian attitude toward homosexuality leads only to shame, guilt, confusion, lying and dysfunction. And, since you all seem quite content with that end result, there will be no honest discussion. I guess I give Azariah points for at least trying.
Do you have a quote from a Christian expressing contentment with shame, guilt, confusion, lying, and dysfunction as an end result? Or are you just in a bombastic mood today? After all, it wouldn't undo your argument, would it, to concede that Christians believe that shame, guilt, confusion, lying, and dysfunction lie at the end of YOUR road, not ours—that you find us foolish rather than malicious?
DeleteIn either case, I'm not in a bombastic mood today, and I am determined to be at peace here as much as it depends upon me. We disagree, you and I, and we already knew that.
Thanks for clarifying the relationship between your opinion and our host's. I do still hope to hear from him. I didn't come here to fight. I came here because I was curious to learn what he means when he writes of a new opportunity.
@Bart I'm laughing at your pretend stance that christians don't mock, denigrate, hate, or express shame about gays. I could send you the stack of letters my parents have sent me expressing the shame and disappointment that I could dare tell them i was on a date with a man, let alone their inability to accept that i live with him and he's my boyfriend. They can't even say his name and you try to come at gays with this bs line about how nice christian's are?
ReplyDeleteThe opportunity that is spoken about is the chance for christian's to realize that their entire world picture is a sham constructed by mass disbelief in reality. If you can find a reason to say that the bible is in contradiction to science the vast majority of christian's will follow the idiot who claims to have found a revelation in the bible. But it's not going to happen, millions upon millions will continue to swallow the line that gays are "broken" people instead of a natural expression of human sexuality. They'll trot out some line about how none of us should consider having sex or having meaningful relationships, and then they'll go back to their wives and husbands never realizing the pain and destruction that they rain down on their own children. It's all bs, no one in the bible even knew what bacteria or psychosis was, nor were they qualified to tell people how to live and who to hate. Any other understanding of the bible is complete imagination, and personal bias. Why else is it that you can use the bible to promote any belief or cause, be it war, execution, slavery, child and spouse abuse, misogyny, racism, sexual abuse and body disfigurement or the opposite??
Tim...sorry about your parents, but well said.
DeleteAll one needs to do is look at all the silly bible "sins" and "commandments" that are routinely ignored by christians: mixing dairy and meat...eating pork or shellfish...wearing clothing made from mixed fibers... Ask them about it and they'll simply dismiss them, with some condecdneing theology school gobbledygook like "Well, my son, those rules were written for a particular group of people during a certain time period and they no longer apply. Christ's death on the cross, blah blah blah", YET they'll turn around and point you right to THE VERY SAME book in the bible in order to justify their twisted obsession with "homosexual sin".
Do you really care what happens to Jonathan?
ReplyDeleteReligion, what a crock of shit! Seriously, just dump it, forget about it, and move on with your life. Life is too short to care about some stupid stories from a book and people whom use those stories to manipulate other people. Talk about head fuck! Religion = Fucked up brainwashing (usually forced from birth).
ReplyDeleteJonathan Merritt is the product of a screwed up, brainwashed upbringing. Forget him because the only way he'll EVER change is if he manages to de-program himself, be truthful to himself and move on with his life. Then perhaps he could be happy and live his life the way he wants. However, I applaud you outing him because he is doing a lot of harm to other people's lives and that needs confronting.
What happens if you are gay and actually believe the gospel - as apparently Azariah once did?
DeleteFor the time being, Jonathan Merritt appears to have chosen to identify with the well-documented deceit of ex-gay sexual "brokenness." Like so many other earnest souls who eventually failed before him, Merritt simultaneously admits and denies his sexual orientation, and he shames himself. Both tactics are counterproductive and self-destructive. On both counts, Merritt rejects the love, grace, and freedom that people are supposed to receive through Christ, and instead accepts the chains and bondage of graceless Sadducees and millstone-wearers. (Luke 17:2, Matthew 18:6)
ReplyDeleteFor more than 30 years, Exodus International and NARTH have turned "ex-gay" Christians against their parents and relatives, sexually molested clients, promoted the use of pornography to cure homosexuality, and lobbied for harsh laws to punish the families of same-sex-attracted persons.
I find it ironic that those who proclaim Biblical inerrancy reject the Bible whenever it's convenient -- especially when the Bible condemns false prophets who offer false cures and who turn families against one another.
Given the graceless, deceitful, and hypocritical conduct of the ex-gay movement, and the complicity of so many like Jonathan Merritt, I admire those who have the courage to leave that sort of Christianity behind: People who put aside the chains of deceit and allow factual truth to talk to them.
I think your apology sucks. You are not sorry. Not in the least. And you don't want a discussion unless it agrees with yours. Like so many others you are so blinded by getting YOUR point across you justify this destructive action to another human being. Outing him was wrong and you know it. You should be ashamed of yourself. I understand you feel he was being a hypocrite. Jonathan, based on his interview does not. He feels he can have homosexual feelings and still own the beliefs he has proclaimed. Now you're going to slam him for that. None of these discussions justifies what you did. Did YOU have the chance to out yourself on your own terms?! If you cared about Jonathan, if you truly wanted to open up discussions you should have approached him privately - not out him publicly on a blog for your OWN publicity.
ReplyDeleteIf you wish to have a conversation about 'destructive actions' let's begin with the religious lunatics who who preach to adults and children that homosexual behavior is 'sinful', a sign of 'brokenness', 'deviant', 'evil', which regularly results in live marked by confusion, dishonesty, shame, frustration and guilt, until eventually, maybe...just MAYBE...they're able to vomit all the poison they were fed for years and come to terms with their natural sexual and affectional attractions.
DeleteWhat Azariah did was to tell the TRUTH, and in none of this does it appear that his doing so was the result of malicious intent.
Yes let's start with the "religious lunatics". Can YOU imagine growing up as Jonathan with your father the PRESIDENT of the SBC, the leader of one of the most prominent, conservative churches in the southeast. Have any of you thought about what that was and is like for him?! The self loathing and self doubt he has grown up with?! And because of all the crap you have been handed it makes it OK for you to crucify Jonathan? What about compassion and understanding for him?! Something you are so desperately wanting for yourself from the Christian community? The truth Azariah spoke was not his to tell. By his own admission he feels conflicted because he knows it was WRONG! If it didn't have malicious intent he wouldn't be feeling conflicted. Sadly, Azariah missed the opportunity, the only opportunity he created was to open up a forum to slam Jonathan on this blog.
DeleteWhatever transpired between AS and JM is an experience that belongs to BOTH individuals, it is not the sole property of only one. Our life experiences are ours to share ..or not. There is no claim by JM that he was coerced into his actions, or under the influence of drugs, or anything other than acting on his own, as a sober, sane adult.
DeleteAnd yes, I have compassion and understanding for JM; he has a problem - he's repressing a natural sexual attraction to men in order to conform with homophobic religious teachings. But more desperate lies (such as blaming his homosexuality on childhood abuse) will not solve his problem, only the truth will. Maybe he'll figure that out eventually, maybe not.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on what we perceive AS's motives to be.
Jonathan's sexuality was HIS truth to speak, NOT Azariah's. Azariah got to come out on his own terms. He robbed Jonathan of that. Jonathan's abuse, his homosexual feelings, his depression and self doubt are just that, HIS. Just like you are blaming Christian evangelicals for forcing Jonathan to define his homosexual feelings as sin and a result of his abuse...you and Azariah are slamming him for not defining himself as gay. All of this is WRONG! And what kills me is that you and Azariah don't see that you are JUST as wrong and exactly the same as theChristian evangelicals you are so vehemently against. It not anyone's right to define who Jonathan is and how can he possibly figure it out himself if all anyone does is spew hatred at him. I was abused as a child and I can't tell you how much it screwed me up and how it has affected me in every aspect of my life. I can't even imagine if on top of all that I endured, the feelings of shame and self loathing, that I also had to deal with homosexual feelings. It's hard enough to survive abuse. Just as I'm sure it' hard enough to grow up with homosexual or even transgender feelings. But it's each individual's right to process the experiences they are dealt and the feelings they have and define themselves for who THEY want to be. I pray Jonathan is given the space he needs to do that from all "sides".
Delete@Kimberly that's a nice thought but I can tell you as someone that grew up with gay attractions in a religious household, you will never be the first person to call yourself gay, and you have no control over it. If you compound that by sleeping with other people it no longer becomes a personal struggle but a shared one and occasionally you need someone to drag you over the threshold even kicking and screaming. Telling someone that they are gay is not shameful unless you think in your heart it is shameful. You don't always wait till a person expresses need to help them, just as you don't wait for an addict to kill themselves, or a depressed person to seek medical help. Some times the people around you are there to show you the door, other times there there to kick you through it. There is nothing shameful about being gay, just as there is nothing shameful about being straight. Sometimes it takes time to process how that will impact the life that others have led you to expect that you will have but that's about it.
DeleteWere you "kicked through the door" Tim - or did you have some control over your coming out process? Do you know Jonathan Merritt well enough to compare his situation to that of an addict or depressed person needing medical help?
Delete@joe yeah in more ways then one, almost had a nervous breakdown because I couldn't keep up the facade of playing it straight and lying to my friends and myself and a situation arose that forced me to out myself to keep a friendship. It took about a year but I ended up finally confronting the lies I had wrapped myself in to keep going. It's much better now and I have a real life, a real relationship and I don't have to lie anymore. Any gay person that calls themselves "broken" because they have natural attractions to men needs help.
DeleteAccording to Merritt's twitter feed... "Powerful time of worship at @crosspointega today. Thankful that Jesus is on the throne"
ReplyDeleteand he's ... "Heading to the airport for a long awaited birthday trip. Looking forward to being unplugged, resting, and new chapters"
You should feel very conflicted, because you had absolutely no right to do what you did.
ReplyDeleteI wonder, now that Jonathan's humanity has been so thoroughly laid bare, why so many here are so compelled to berate him, ridicule him, and quite frankly crucify him?
ReplyDeleteWhat wrong has Jonathan done to any of us? What sin has he committed against me, or against Azariah, or against any who have entered into this conversation?
Is he guilty of hypocrisy? Who of us at any time in our lives haven't been guilty of this?
Has he victimized any of us here who are gay? No.
Does he single-handedly have the power to influence the creation of anti-gay policy such as to reverse the rising trend of civil rights that are now favoring us gay Americans? No.
Has he disempowered any of us who support equal marital rights for gay Americans? No.
Jonathan Merritt has not scapegoated a single one of us and yet there are those here who would cast all their anger and fear and hatred of "religion" upon Jonathan as if he is responsible for bearing whatever burdens and inner turmoil that they carry in themselves.
Jonathan is not the patron saint of the evangelical church in America, nor is he the nemesis of gay Americans. Jonathan is not the standard by which decent Christian faith is measured.
Jonathan is human. Like Azariah. Like me. Like all of us. He is not better, not worse.
He lent his voice to a large national conversation of immense consequence, in which many of us here are participants to varying degrees. If we disagree with his viewpoint, we need only counter it with our own. Such is how proper American dialogue should be conducted, as Jonathan does in such exemplary fashion. And where adversarial discourse becomes impassioned and energetic, it is our burden to exercise self-discipline, and wisdom.
That, sadly, is not what has happened here. Instead, Jonathan's "outing" has created an absolute zero benefit to the original conversation. What it HAS done, besides creating unnecessary pain in Jonathan's personal and public life, is reveal that a goodly number of people in the gay community, such as some commenting on this thread, possess measures of intolerance, bitterness, and vitriol equal to that of the very anti-gay religionists who work against our civil rights. In this way, quite ironically, Azariah has certainly played his part in leveling the playing field.
In the end, I suspect this matter will have no impact whatsoever on the actual issue of gay civil rights. I instead firmly believe, with prayerful confidence, that it's impact will in fact be to raise grace above bitterness, compassion above animosity, reconciliation above conflict, and love above fear. For Jonathan. For Azariah. For all of us.
@R. Jay Pearson, saying that Jonathan has no impact on a discussion, while actively being hypocritical, as well as suffering from a false understanding of his own sexuality that he is selling as some sort of spiritual truth does hurt people and does affect the national debate.
ReplyDeleteTO Tim . . .
DeleteI never said Jonathan has no impact on the discussion, but only that whatever impact he does have lacks any power to shift the ENTIRE conversation in any one direction. And his contribution to the conversation, by the way, has been far more gracious than that of other more prominent evangelicals. He deserves credit where credit is due.
That he is "actively being hypocritical" . . . I don't see it. I have been in Jonathan's shoes before, and I understand the immense conflict he is encountering. He is striving to live according to a set of convictions that are deeply important to him, while also doing battle with certain impulses. That he has failed one way or the other in his struggle, and has chosen to keep the struggle private, does not make him a hypocrite. It makes him human.
As to Jonathan "suffering from a false understanding of his own sexuality" . . . I do not have, nor does anyone else have, that deep an insight into Jonathan's psyche in order to make such a specific statement. We can certainly say he struggles. He's admitted as much. But we cannot identify the real depth of it. Only Jonathan can.
As to Jonathan "selling" his false understanding of his own sexuality "as some sort of spiritual truth" . . . it is impossible to qualify what "false understanding" is without identifying what "true understanding" is. And the problem with this is that both are incredibly subjective.
That Jonathan's issues "hurt people and does affect the national debate" . . . how?
@R. Jay Pearson your argument appears to be that nothing should be done because it's not a game changer, but in this battle for equality in our culture we small fish have to take each day and each event and use it. We don't have millions for a lobbying effort, or universal appeal. We just have to take each person who claims we are broken and turn the light on them and their arguments. Being gay does not mean you're broken, being unable to accept your own sexuality however does make you broken as if causes a mental schism that must be compartmentalized and ignored, or an over eager hatred to destroy all things that remind you of your own weakness. This is why the most ardent anti gay people are gay, and why there is a need to out people rather then calmly wait for them to realize the futility of their own belief system and struggle. The faster you can get to realizing that you aren't broken the faster you can heal the self inflicted damage yourself and with loving friends and family. By continuing the lie that gay people are broken Jonathan hurts people and himself, he writes books and is a frequent media contributor, that's how he affects the national debate.
ReplyDeleteR Jay Pearson's argument is the Christian one - be gracious - do no harm even though more powerful/influential people will tear you (and your naivety) to pieces. It's no surprise that a non-Christian or ex-Christian will roll his eyes at such perspective (worldliness makes perfect sense if you deny/reject God) but a Christian cannot restrict himself to logic of this world. Christianity is other worldly - supernatural - and has always claimed that people and reality itself are 'broken'.
DeleteTO Joe . . .
DeleteYes, my position is the one Jesus would take: be gracious, do no harm.
As to my worldview and perspective . . . my faith is unconcerned with "other worldly" things or "supernatural" matters. My faith, instead, is primarily concerned with what grounds us all HERE as a human family, why we find ourselves in states of disharmony, and how we can create Oneness within ourselves, with one another, and with the physical world. Plain and simple.
Just so that you don't have to worry about making anymore inaccurate assumptions about my Christianity, here's a quick overview of R. Jay Pearson's Christian faith:
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My Christian faith is about love and grace, not doctrine or belief.
I don't do the "going to heaven" bit. And "hell" is just bad mythology (but great for sci-fi).
I love the Bible. It informs my faith, but does not command it. It is NOT an authority. As I mentioned to someone recently, the Biblical narrative is a good word from yesterday, but is not God’s voice today.
I do indeed believe in brokenness, but it is not a depraved condition that we somehow inherited in our human nature. It is a condition much like addiction that I believe we can change through radical love. And for me, Jesus of Nazareth was the embodiment of that kind of love.
And being gay, by the way, is not an issue of brokenness. However, if one's sexual practice (heterosexual OR homosexual) creates harm to the self or to others, THEN it is an issue of brokenness.
Finally, my Christian faith considers all people to be beautiful in nature. We just sometimes do less-than-beautiful things. HOW we respond to that . . . well, THAT is what my Christian faith is about. And it begins and ends with radical, Oneness-creating love. Period.
====
That's an incomplete nutshell, but it will do.
You need to realize that "Christianity" is not monolithic. Christians do not think the same nor perceive things the same way, either in terms of theology, organization, practice, etc. Some Christians are truly hateful people. Many Christians are abundantly loving. Some Christians are harmfully self-righteous. Others are examples of powerful humility.
For years I rejected the label of "Christian" for myself. I at one point even became militant about it: "I am definitely NOT a Christian," I would tell people. Until I realized that Christianity is a microcosm of humankind: often screwed up, yet frequently capable of such powerful goodness.
And I concluded that if I'm to be of any creative use during my time on this wonderful rock, I have to love the bad WITH the good. Otherwise, I'm just idolizing myself as SO much better than everyone else.
No thanks. I'll give Jesus' way another try.
Interesting. I wasn't claiming to know or explain your personal 'theology' (although I can understand how you might have got that from my reply). I was trying to say your gracious post above represents or echoes the Christian perspective.
DeleteBTW - are you Mormon?
TO Joe . . .
DeleteGlad we can clear things up.
Grace is integral to the Christian worldview. Unfortunately, it has become relegated to a mere tenet "on paper." Grace as a fundamental practice is exceedingly absent among too many Christians today.
No, I am not Mormon. In fact, I don't really fit very neatly into any Christian subcategory/denomination. My "theology," my "belief," and my practice all begin and end with the Greatest Commandment: "Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind. And love all other people as yourself." And for me, Jesus is the embodiment of that Golden Rule. Anything beyond that is really just seasoning (which is not to say seasoning is necessarily bad, it's simply neither the meat nor the potatoes).
@R. Jay Pearson covering up for people's hypocrisies is not about "grace" it is about trying to pretend that a failed belief system is working or could work. I'm all about extending forgiveness, but that's not the same thing as pretending that it didn't happen or that someone's words are not having a real affect on people.
ReplyDeleteTO Tim . . .
DeleteYou're right. Grace is not about covering up a person's hypocrisy, nor is it about pretending the hypocrisy didn't happen.
But it's also not about pummeling a person after they've already confessed to their hypocrisy, even if to an incomplete degree. To this, grace recognizes that exposure is humiliating, especially when the exposed individual has a healthy conscience, and that a painful process is involved in being restored to wholeness (or Oneness, as I prefer to say).
Grace doesn't inhibit this process, but instead fosters it. Grace doesn't increase the person's humiliation, but instead affirms their humanity, to the end of seeking to raise them up, not bury them.
As to forgiveness, I disagree with your assessment of it wholeheartedly. Forgiveness ABSOLUTELY IS about wiping the slate clean and forgetting that the hypocrisy (or any error) occurred. That is the very essence of forgiveness! Forgiveness IS about absolution, and no longer keeping account. Otherwise, it is not forgiveness. It is debt. And forgiveness is about erasing debt. Completely.
Because forgiveness, while an end unto itself, has the ultimate function of restoring Oneness from brokenness.
And THAT is the very substance of grace.
@R. Jay Pearson your idea of forgiveness is little more than fanciful thoughts of a child. If a criminal is forgiven is their slate wiped clean? Do we worry that an addict will return again and again to their drug of choice? Do we forget everything we learned simply to exist in a state of self deception and fuzzy clouds? If a pattern exists all the forgiveness in the world won't change that. Sunlight is the best antiseptic.
ReplyDeleteTO Tim . . .
DeleteImagine what a wonderful world it would be if we all practiced ideas borne of fanciful, childlike thoughts. I, for one, always dreamed as a child about how cool it would be if we could go to the moon. (Oh, right. We already did that.)
My point is this: sometimes the "fanciful thoughts of a child" are exactly what we need to escape the gravity of fear which weighs us down to a dark landscape of bitterness.
If a criminal is forgiven is their slate wiped clean?
Yes.
Do we worry that an addict will return again and again to their drug of choice?
No. We don't worry. We love. We love, and love, and love copiously and endlessly. And we don't see the person as an "addict." We see them exactly and wholly as they are: a beautiful, wonderful child of God fully worthy in their blessed humanity.
Do we forget everything we learned simply to exist in a state of self deception and fuzzy clouds?
Sometimes unlearning certain things is what's necessary. Such as unlearning habits of fear: grudge-keeping, intolerance, bitterness, hatred, and the like. Those things are the real sources of self-deception. Those things actually perpetuate the very ills you mention (i.e., criminal acts and drug addiction).
Sunlight is the best antiseptic.
And love, grace, and forgiveness are the best forms of sunlight.
R. Jay Pearson: sadly innocence is just ignorance, it is not a magical state of being, a computer is not better for having an empty hard drive, nor is a book better when it is not read. I really don't know what kind of, "gravity of fear which weighs us down to a dark landscape of bitterness." you are experiencing but it might be that you have many issues you need to deal with rather then continue to sweep under the rug. I've never been more fear free then when i realized that religion was a sham and we only had to fear ourselves and each other. It deflated all my fears and made them manageable.
ReplyDeleteYou seem to lack even a basic understanding that reality is more then fuzzy feelings, addiction is more then a habit. Sometimes you have to deal with people with more then a hug. It can be treatment, counseling, imprisonment, simple confinement, monitored living. simply smiling and walking away can be tantamount to murder for some people. This is why religious people get annoying sometimes, because they act like praying about something is the same as actually doing something.
If there was ever a justified "outing", this was one. I have no problem with a person being a hypocrite, but when he/she is attempting to make others see themselves as "sinners" for doing exactly what the hypocrite is doing, I say "Expose him/her." Thank you, Azariah, for what you have done and may others who possess the sort of knowledge that you,did concerning the hypocritical Mr. Merritt do the same.
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ReplyDeleteMy fiancee left me with a 2months pregnancy few months to our weeding, he dumped me for another lady because of what i don't know. He said to my face that i am a looser and he never loved me, which i know its a lie, it was so surprising that he changed to a demon i never see in him. Then I noticed that the heart monitor was showing a beat! But this was only his pacemaker. each day has never been the same for me since that day. to worsen issue i lost my job and everything was like am drowning in an ocean i cant swim.
ReplyDeleteThere was a day i was just surfing the net and i saw a website of this spell lady, PRIESTESSIFAAGREATSPELLPOWERS.WEBS.COM, she sound so powerful that i felt that she can bring back to me all that i have lost.
I contacted her through her email on priestessifaa@yahoo.com and she gave me hope that things would be back to normal with her spell, i did doubt because it was my first time to see spiritual work and since my liver could turn a demon over, so i believe anything can still happen. I gave her all details she requires to carry with the spell, An few hours later she came back to me telling that the gods reveals that the other woman did a very strong evil spell on me for my lover to start seeing me like and slot and hate me forever. This hurt even more than a nail in my head, i gave the spell lady a go ahead to do a go ahead to break and curse and return my lover to me.
The most happiest part i expected and came to pass but was so fast and accurate was that my lover came to me after 4days begging with his life that he never knew how things went like that, he went back, to that lady, he beats and push her out of his house and never to see her again.
Everything was like having my life back again all through this spell lady Priestess Ifaa. she is awesome and great with her spell and she is so accurate and fast with her work.
My lover and i are getting married this december and in few months from now i will put to bed. Priestess ifaa is a goddess. meet her and heal your broken heart too.